Vance, Walz spar over abortion and immigration in first and only VP debate
Sen. JD Vance of Ohio, the Republican vice presidential nominee, and Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, faced off Tuesday night in their first and only debate, sparring over issues like foreign policy, border security, abortion and climate change and introducing themselves and their records to the American people with just five weeks to Election Day.
Vice presidential debates are traditionally seen as second-tier, but with former President Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris unlikely to debate again before voters cast their ballots Nov. 5, the stakes were raised for their running mates as they attempted to tackle the most important issues facing the nation.
CBS News anchors Norah O’Donnell and Margaret Brennan moderated the debate in New York City Tuesday night, which was filled with more substantive policy discussion than personal jabs on a day that began with nearly 50,000 unionized dockworkers going on strike from Maine to Texas and ended with Iran launching its largest attack on Israel in history, firing nearly 250 ballistic missiles at the Jewish State.
The first question for Walz and Vance was whether they would support a preemptive strike by Israel on Iran.
A visibly shaky Walz had a rough start to the debate, pausing and stumbling over his words as he spoke about the need for ‘steady leadership’ from the White House. Instead of answering the question, Walz took a shot at Trump.
‘What’s fundamental here is that steady leadership is going to matter,’ Walz said, pointing to Trump’s debate performance against Harris last month. ‘It’s clear, and the world saw it on that debate stage a few weeks ago. A nearly 80-year-old Donald Trump talking about crowd sizes is not what we need in this moment.’
But Vance, in his first answer, defended Trump, saying Trump ‘delivered stability to the world, and he did it by establishing effective deterrence.’
‘People were afraid of stepping out of line,’ Vance said. ‘Donald Trump recognized that for people to fear the United States, you needed peace through strength. They needed to recognize that if they got out of line, the United States’ global leadership would put stability and peace back in the world.’
As for a preemptive strike, Vance said, ‘It is up to Israel what they think they need to do to keep their country safe. And we should support our allies wherever they are, when they’re fighting the bad guys.’
Walz fired back. He slammed the Trump administration for pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal, saying Iran is ‘closer to a nuclear weapon than they were before because of Donald Trump’s fickle leadership,’ adding Harris is providing ‘steady leadership.’
Vance fired back.
‘You blame Donald Trump, but who has been the vice president for the last 3½ years? And the answer is, your running mate, not mine,’ Vance said.
Vance, again defending Trump, said he ‘consistently made the world more secure.’
‘Gov. Walz can criticize Donald Trump’s tweets, but effective, smart diplomacy and peace through strength is how you bring stability back to a very broken world,’ Vance said. ‘Donald Trump has already done it once before.’
Vance also urged voters to ask themselves, ‘When was the last time that an American president didn’t have a major conflict break out?’
‘The only answer is during the four years that Donald Trump was president,’ Vance said.
The debate shifted to the ongoing crisis at the southern border, a top issue for voters.
Vance said he has already been to the border more than ‘border czar’ Kamala Harris, while touting Trump’s plan to secure the border.
But Walz blasted Trump for his alleged efforts to get Republicans to vote against a border bill.
‘As soon as it was getting ready to pass and actually tackle this, Donald Trump said no, told [lawmakers] to vote against it, because it gives him a campaign issue,’ Walz said. ‘What would Donald Trump talk about if we actually did some of these things?’
On the same topic, moderators asked Vance whether he and Trump would support family separation as part of Trump’s proposed ‘mass deportation’ should he be elected.
‘We have 320,000 children that the Department of Homeland Security has effectively lost,’ Vance explained. ‘Some of them have been sex trafficking. Some of them, hopefully, are at homes with their families.
‘Some of them have been used as drug trafficking mules. The real family separation policy in this country is, unfortunately, Kamala Harris’ wide open southern border. And I’d ask my fellow Americans to remember when she came into office, she said she was going to do this. Real leadership would be saying, ‘You know what, I screwed up. We’re going to go back to Donald Trump’s border policies.’ I wish that she would do that. It would be good for all of us.’
Walz pushed back, saying children have not been used as ‘drug mules’ and defending Harris, saying she was attorney general in California and ‘prosecuted transnational gangs for human trafficking and drugs.’
Walz also hit Vance over claims he had made about Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, saying he had demonized them.
‘Look, in Springfield, Ohio, and in communities all across this country, you’ve got schools that are overwhelmed. You’ve got hospitals that are overwhelmed. You’ve got housing that is totally unaffordable because we brought in millions of illegal immigrants to compete with Americans,’ Vance said.
At that point, moderators tried to correct Vance, but the GOP vice presidential nominee pushed back, reminding the moderators that they said they would not be fact-checking the candidates.
The moderators said many Haitian residents in Springfield, Ohio, have temporary legal status. Vance jumped in to ‘say what’s actually going on.’
While explaining the process and tying it to a Harris-backed process, the moderators spoke over him, sarcastically thanking him for ‘describing the legal process’ before they cut off his microphone as Tim Walz attempted to argue with him.
‘We have so much we have to get to. Thank you so much for explaining the legal process,’ Brennan said before asking O’Donnell to ask the next question.
As for the issue of abortion, another top issue for voters this cycle, Walz maintained that he and Harris are pro-choice, while Vance said Republicans need to ‘do so much better of a job at earning the American people’s trust back on this issue, where they, frankly, just don’t trust us.’
‘And I think that’s one of the things that Donald Trump and I are endeavoring to do. I want us, as a Republican Party, to be pro-family in the fullest sense of the word. I want us to support fertility treatments. I want us to make it easier for moms to afford to have babies,’ Vance said. ‘I want to make it easier for young families to afford a home so they can afford a place to raise that family. And I think there’s so much that we can do on the public policy front just to give women more options right now.’
Vance echoed Trump’s view of abortion, supporting the Supreme Court’s decision to return the issue of abortion to the states, while supporting exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother.
‘The proper way to handle this, as messy as democracy sometimes is, is to let voters make these decisions,’ Vance said. ‘Let the individual states make their abortion policy. And I think that’s what makes the most sense in a very big, a very diverse — and let’s be honest — sometimes, a very, very messy and divided country.’
Meanwhile, the moderators switched to questions of leadership, pressing Walz on whether he was actually in China for the Tiananmen Square protests as he had previously claimed.
A visibly nervous Walz attempted to explain the discrepancy, ultimately saying he ‘misspoke’ and was not there until later that year.
And the question for Vance was about his past criticisms of Trump.
Vance said, at the time, he disliked Trump because he ‘believed some of the media stories that turned out to be dishonest fabrications of his record.’
‘Donald Trump delivered for the American people rising wages, rising take-home pay, an economy that worked for normal Americans, a secure southern border. A lot of things, frankly, that I didn’t think he’d be able to deliver on. And, yeah, when you screw up, when you misspeak, when you get something wrong and you change your mind, you ought to be honest with the American people about it,’ Vance said.
Meanwhile, Vance offered his sympathies to Walz during the part of the debate focused on gun violence, when he learned Walz’s son had witnessed a shooting.
Walz said his 17-year-old son ‘witnessed a shooting at a community center playing volleyball.’
‘I didn’t know that your 17-year-old witnessed a shooting. I’m sorry about that. Christ, have mercy,’ Vance said.
The two spoke about school shootings and their plans to solve gun violence.
‘We have to make the doors locked better. We have to make the doors stronger. We’ve got to make the windows stronger, and, of course, we’ve got to increase school resource officers. Because the idea that we can magically wave a wand and take guns out of the hands of bad guys, it just doesn’t fit with recent experience,’ Vance said.
Walz said the conversation was a good start but had to go further.
‘Even though we have a high gun ownership rate in the country, there are reasonable things that we can do to make a difference. It’s not infringing on your Second Amendment. And the idea to have some of these weapons out there, it just doesn’t make any sense,’ he said.
Vance was pushed on past comments in which he said he would not have voted to certify the 2020 election results on Jan. 6, 2021.
Vance fired back at the assertion that Trump could pose a ‘threat to democracy,’ saying he believes ‘we actually do have a threat to democracy in this country.’
‘But, unfortunately, it’s not the threat to democracy that Kamala Harris and Tim Walz want to talk about. It is the threat of censorship. It’s Americans casting aside lifelong friendships because of disagreements over politics. It’s big technology companies silencing their fellow citizens,’ Vance said.
Walz redirected the discussion to Jan. 6, 2021, blasting Trump and Republicans for allegedly denying the events of that day.
‘I will tell you this, that when this is over, we need to shake hands this election, and the winner needs to be the winner. This has got to stop. It’s tearing our country apart,’ Walz said.
Vance replied, saying it is ‘really rich for Democratic leaders to say that Donald Trump is a unique threat to democracy when he peacefully gave over power on January the 20th.’
‘As we have done for 250 years in this country, we are going to shake hands after this debate and after this election. And, of course, I hope that we win, and I think we’re going to win,’ Vance said. ‘But if Tim Walz is the next vice president, he’ll have my prayers. He’ll have my best wishes, and he’ll have my help whenever he wants it.’
But Vance reminded Americans that ‘for years in this country, Democrats protested the results of elections.’
‘Hillary Clinton in 2016 said that Donald Trump had the election stolen by Vladimir Putin because the Russians bought like $500,000 worth of Facebook ads. This has been going on for a long time, and if we want to say that we need to respect the results of the election, I’m on board,’ Vance said. ‘But if we want to say, as Tim Walz is saying, that this is just a problem that Republicans have had, I don’t buy that, governor.’
As the debate came to a close, Vance and Walz both promised voters a new direction for the United States.
‘Kamala Harris is bringing us a new way forward,’ Walz said. ‘She’s bringing us a politics of joy. She’s bringing real solutions for the middle class. And she’s centering you at the heart of that, all the while asking everyone, join this movement. Make your voices heard.’
Vance also gave a message of change to the voters.
‘We need change. We need a new direction. We need a president who has already done this once before and did it well. Please vote for Donald Trump,’ Vance said. ‘And whether you vote for me or vote for Tim Walz, I just want to say I’m so proud to be doing this, and I’m rooting for you.’
Walz entered the debate with better poll numbers than Vance.
According to the latest Fox News national poll, Walz was slightly above water with a 43% favorable rating and a 40% unfavorable rating. Vance stood in negative territory, at 38%-50% favorable/unfavorable.
Heading into the debate, Vance had been talkative, sitting for scores of interviews and taking plenty of questions from reporters on the campaign trail.
Both running mates get right back on the campaign trail Wednesday in two of the key seven battleground states that will likely determine whether Harris or Trump succeed President Biden in the White House.
Vance holds campaign events in Auburn Hills and Marne, Michigan. And Walz takes part in a campaign bus tour swing through parts of central Pennsylvania, which kicks off at the airport in Harrisburg, the state capital.